The Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R-Spec Is The Most Underrated Car On Sale

"Satish Kondapavulur" (becauseCAR)
10/11/2013 at 17:55 • Filed to: OPINIONS

Today, I’ve decided to join a debate on Oppositelock that rages at least once every day. No, I’m not talking about what theme will rule over the day. Or what suspension setup is best for a Toyobaru or a Miata. Or the barrage of advice that results when someone asks what car they should buy? (In instances like those, I follow the great Doug DeMuro’s !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .)

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Instead, I’ve ventured into the argument of what is the most underrated car on sale today.

This is a post which will undoubtedly lead to halfhearted debates (on my part) between me and much of the diehard people on Oppositelock (Opposite-lockers?) which will end up with me admitting that the Miata, a car favored by people who think they’re autocross aces, is the most underrated car. But they’re wrong.

That’s because I’ve driven the Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R-Spec. And my goodness, it’s fantastic. It can eat up the highway at high speeds, can summon up the torque to pass those numerous BMW 3-Series/Audi A4s/Mercedes C-Classes that clog the left lane in the Bay Area, while still being comfortable and looking classy, all for under $47,000.

A 528i is incapable of doing that. So is any Audi A6 or Mercedes E550 (which only gets 4Matic here, so it can't do smoky burnouts). A 300C SRT8, though faster and more expensive, is ticket bait, since after all, Walter White did own one. And the worst part: people know what all those cars are.

People on the highway will not know what this car is. When other motorists call you in for breaking the speed limit, they won't know how to describe your car. The guy in the E36 3-Series won't know what hit him when you merge into the left lane before he does. That woman in the S4 who thought she could beat me off the line at a stoplight looked incredulous. Try doing any of that in a Miata.

In fact, it reminded me of a Mercedes-Benz 500E. This is a comment which will go down in Jalopnik infamy. And I will defend that comment until the day I die, like my proclamation that the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

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Like the 500E, the Genesis really isn't that much of a handler (it is a mistake to take a 500E on a winding country road, I guarantee that you won't enjoy it), but on the highway when you put your foot down, the Genesis goes with the same intensity as a 500E. And the Hyundai's build quality is definitely on par with that of the Mercedes.

Also, like the 500E, most people on the highway won't know what it actually is, just like the Genesis 5.0 R-Spec. Honestly, you could park either car in the driveway and passersby would think they both were some sort of Mercedes.

And now, I will try to convince you to even consider the Genesis 5.0 R-Spec by using some tricks out of the Consumer Reports playbook. For instance, the Hyundai can run on regular gasoline, presumably to acknowledge that Hyundai customers can still be cheap. It has a fantastic sound system, heated/cooled seats, and even a Lane Departure Warning system all standard, perhaps because Hyundai still needs to be Hyundai. And you can easily find one for thousands off MSRP since no one ever thinks of the 5.0 R-Spec.

But most importantly, it has a 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Absolutely no other fast car can match that. No one. Not the Germans, who would rather say "Why don't you lease the car? Your maintenance costs won't be that high." (Or in the case of BMW and VW, stress the free maintenance during the lease period.) The Japanese will promote their J.D. Power ratings and politely decline. The Americans will pull the most aggressive sale of a third-party extended warranty you've ever seen.

The Hyundai powertrain warranty is better than any warranty you can get from CarMax. You won't even have to pay extra for a warranty on top of a non-negotiable price for a CarMax vehicle. And there's no way a Genesis will introduce you to a world of wallet hurt like a V-10 M5 (even with MaxCare) will.

In the end, with the potential to be mistaken for everything else but a Hyundai, a powerful engine, and everyone always overlooking it when car shopping despite impressive discounts, the Genesis 5.0 R-Spec is the most underrated car on sale.

It's too bad nobody notices. They all buy Miatas.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! runs !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , named because "Clunker.com" was $82 at auction and would've taken 30% out of the balance of his Eagle Vision for LeMons fund. In between contemplating cross-country runs, he spends much of his time attempting to convince others that his MkV Jetta 2.0T Wolfsburg is indeed a sports sedan.

Image credit Hyundai.

DISCUSSION (100)

H4N5 GRU83R > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:01

Thank you for making this the first Hyundai on my heavily depreciated awesome used cars to own someday list.

EL_ULY > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:05

welcome to the club...

Kinja'd!!!

Performance Hybdrid + Yamaha V8 AWD since 2007

Victorious Secret > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:12

Hyundais are depreciation specials even though they don't suck that much anymore.

5.0 R Spec? I'd do one for a DD luxobarge. Easily over most of the others. E60 550i or E63 AMG might change my mind, because V8s.

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:12

Totally agree.

Team6.1 > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:13

Half of 100 thousand dollars for a Hyundai...letting that sink in. I have not driven one, let alone sat in one, so I withold judgement. Then again I've never been the one to indulge in theb luxury automobile world. My jeep might have a top and doors somewhere, maybe, and I'll argue that a 2011+ 5.0 mustang is the best performance/$ that you can buy. Will be interesting to see how these sell compared to it's rivals. I feel like image is important at this price point and not sure how many people will choose the performance over the brand name.

Kailand09 > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:15

I'm glad to hear Hyundai keeps improving their products. The genesis coupe, this R-Spec. Interesting stuff.

I'm not sure about the fact that nobody would recognize it. Is that really that good of a thing? Kinda tells me their design is pretty ambiguous for the car. I wish it was a bit more inspired like the coupe, or even the elantra.

Nice write-up man.

Satish Kondapavulur > Victorious Secret
10/11/2013 at 18:19

Absolutely.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Kailand09
10/11/2013 at 18:19

Anonymity can have its advantages.

Satish Kondapavulur > H4N5 GRU83R
10/11/2013 at 18:20

It's definitely awesome.

Satish Kondapavulur > EL_ULY
10/11/2013 at 18:23

I don't know about the LS600hL. The LS460 F-Sport in itself is very good while there's really no good reason for getting the hybrid. (And the lack of trunk space doesn't help.)

Satish Kondapavulur > Kailand09
10/11/2013 at 18:24

If you want to maintain anonymity and have a fast car, you could do a lot worse than one of these, since almost no one would ever expect it.

Satish Kondapavulur > Team6.1
10/11/2013 at 18:26

It's not selling well at all compared to its rivals. But I think there is a right sort of customer for this car. Preferably one who wants to go fast but stay anonymous.

Kailand09 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney
10/11/2013 at 18:26

This is true. That was brought up in the article a little bit too. Cops probably won't notice this speeding as much as a brightly colored BMW or something.

Kailand09 > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:27

Yeah, that is true. I don't always consider anonymity that much.

EL_ULY > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:37

what people dont understand about Lexus Hybrid Drive is that it was never intended for economy. Instead of V8's and V12's, they made Lexus Hybrid Drive kinda like KERS since 2004. Keeps the motor at its peak RPM plus hoards of torque from the Hybrid system. In the LS600hL, it gave V12 performance for a V8. GS450h have V8 power from a V6. HS250 and CT200h were build with Toyotas weak sauce Hybrid system for eco purposes. Underrated for sure. While at Lexus tech training, we drag raced an LS600hL (with my friend in the back seat enjoying a massage at max inclined seat) VS an IS-F... it was a dead heat for half a mile when we finally ran out of space.

SpeedSix > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 18:45

Nicely written article, I agree wholeheartedly.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 19:40

Well, if you pass me on this thing and I want to report you to the police (no, I won't. What for? ), I'll describe you as a maniac in a faux W221 S-Class.

Really. I saw that the other day, and at first I was thinking that's an S-Class.

Satish Kondapavulur > SpeedSix
10/11/2013 at 21:43

Thanks!

Satish Kondapavulur > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
10/11/2013 at 21:44

Really? They sell these in Indonesia?

Satish Kondapavulur > EL_ULY
10/11/2013 at 21:45

Interesting...

But for the price of the LS600hL, I'd go S8 any day of the week.

EL_ULY > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 21:55

lol, i thought you were on Team Underrated? lol. LS600hL all for me :]

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Satish Kondapavulur
10/11/2013 at 21:58

No. But we do allowed to import whatever car that we want, as long as you pay for 200% luxury tax.

Grindintosecond > Satish Kondapavulur
10/14/2013 at 11:45

I'm thinking that if Hyundai wants to get people to notice their higher end and very quality product, they need a factory serious motorsports program.....not just an scca rally tiburon for a season but an extended presence in something people notice. WTCC? GT endurance? shoot any car now can be made into a world beater, they're all pretty much stripped down and built as needed to be competitive. Bentley is out there doin it. lets see their R products get green lit.

Satish Kondapavulur > Grindintosecond
10/14/2013 at 15:18

Endurance racing would really help Hyundai I think. They would be extremely cool if they did.

Tom McParland > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 11:10

The Genesis R-spec is the most underrated used car on the market. IMO, I don't think it is worth 47k new but you can get lightly used R-specs with less than 20k miles for the low 30s. I was very disappointed when one of my clients changed their mind on one of these at the last minute, to get an SUV . :(

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Satish Kondapavulur > Tom McParland
10/18/2013 at 11:57

I remember commenting on that. Your client missed out on a very good and enjoyable car.

Seitz > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 14:15

Can't get passed the design of the car. I'm sure it does everything well, but it looks incredibly boring.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 14:24

I think the same can be said for the Equus. I reviewed the car last year, and have the updated '14 Equus coming in December. While it doesn't honestly compete with the German lux sedans it sure goes after Lexus in a big way, while undercutting on price by $10k. To me it's the perfect car for flying under the radar and still enjoying a large lux sedan.

Satish Kondapavulur > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
10/18/2013 at 14:31

That's true, but the Genesis has some performance in it compared to an Equus, since the Equus does not handle well compared to an LS460 F-Sport.

Satish Kondapavulur > Seitz
10/18/2013 at 14:33

That's the point! Nobody will know how to describe it to the highway patrol when you speed at 100 mph.

OtizzleStarBai > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 14:59

I fully concur with this post.

And for what little we know of HTRAC and the testing the 2nd gen Genesis is going through right now, I'm hoping it will fix the 1st gen's one and only problem (in my book) its handling ability.

Full disclosure, my family owns a 3.8 2009 Gen Sedan. My fiance has 3.8 Gen Coupe 2010, and I, if the looks continue to be as sexy as it is under all that camo, and if the 5.0 is still around with 429+ hp, and RWD... will be trading in my 09 e90 sport sometime next year for one a brand new 2G 5.0 Gen Sedan.

TxFlOr > Victorious Secret
10/18/2013 at 15:10

Hyundais haven't been depreciation specials for some time. Just do a simple google search, they have several models that have the lowest depreciation in their class.

Ce he sin > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 15:14

Never heard of this thing before. Looks more like a Merc than a Merc does. Do people actually buy them? I remember years ago we used to have big Toyotas like the Crown and the Nissan something or other but buyers stayed away in droves as the value would fall like a great big heavy thing the moment you drove off the forecourt.

iliketoeat > EL_ULY
10/18/2013 at 15:24

But that's a lot uglier and a lot more expensive than the Hyundai. No, thanks.

Satish Kondapavulur > OtizzleStarBai
10/18/2013 at 15:26

Wow, a Hyundai family. And get the 5.0 R-Spec used. It's a really good deal when you can find one.

Satish Kondapavulur > Ce he sin
10/18/2013 at 15:27

People don't really buy them at all, unfortunately. Used ones with under 10,000 miles on them go for just over $30K, and they're a really good deal at that price.

Kugelblitz > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 16:08

" And the Hyundai's build quality is definitely on par with that of the Mercedes."

Umm, no. But it is better than the low end Hyundai cars, some of which won't even stay aligned .

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 16:11

Haha, Ford Taurus SHO can match this in almost every way, except RWD and that Warranty, but for a car to eat up the highway miles, while remaining incognito, my '10 SHO is excellent. It, like the Genesis, has enormous power on tap and no-one expects it.

Thanks for writing this! I've always wanted to read more about the 5.0 Genesis, but was never quite motivated enough to seek out any articles on it, haha. Someone at my work has a regular Genesis in silver, I can't say I'm a big fan of it, judging from the pics, it looks a whole lot better in black.

If it costs 47,000 now, it'll cost 23,000 3 years from now, if what I paid for my SHO is any indication.

Satish Kondapavulur > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs
10/18/2013 at 17:18

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it! I like the SHO too (no one, especially Audi drivers, expect it to be fast), but there's something about rear-drive and a V-8 that's just irresistible about the Genesis.

Satish Kondapavulur > Kugelblitz
10/18/2013 at 17:19

Dude, Hyundai's come a long way in the last five years. I'd like to think Hyundai makes the Genesis go through a lot more durability tests than today's Mercedes-Benz E-Classes.

Walfisch > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 17:44

I secretly harbor a want for the Genesis. If I was in the market for a new car, this is on the short list of what I would look at. My only complaints: that grill design does not really look good IMO, and the color palette available for the US model is uninspiring. I was watching a Korean drama some years back, and I saw a Genesis (not really sure if that's what they call these things there) in dark blue and cream leather interior. So hot.

Anybody looking for used luxury should seriously cross shop this with the other models. Thanks for the great piece!

Satish Kondapavulur > Walfisch
10/18/2013 at 17:49

I'm glad you enjoyed it! And it's seriously a good car.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > iliketoeat
10/18/2013 at 18:01

Performance > Looks. Unless you're talking about the Multipla.

dal20402 > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 18:06

Two problems, which taken together are disqualifying for a luxury sedan in my book:

1) Lousy suspension and steering calibration. Hard ride without that much handling prowess. Steering that more or less sends the car where you point it but isn't satisfying.

2) Interior materials quality.

Fix those two things and I'd agree. It's a great deal in terms of features/$.

nope > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 18:12

The R-Spec is on my short list. The biggest problem with it is that it's at the end of its life cycle and the new Genesis Sedan looks very promising.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > dal20402
10/18/2013 at 20:18

If I wanted none of these, the F-Sport LS.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > iliketoeat
10/18/2013 at 20:19

Also, you forgot to add in how Lexus actually has interior quality.

Satish Kondapavulur > dal20402
10/18/2013 at 21:05

Really? I thought the ride felt like a Lexus GS. And the interior materials quality was actually fairly good. In fact, it was on par with the older Lexus GS cars as well. But I hope it'll be reliable over time.

Satish Kondapavulur > nope
10/18/2013 at 21:05

I know, but I'm hoping the new Genesis will come with that big V-8 at launch. And I'm hoping the price will remain the same.

1skinnydave > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 21:44

I had a long hard debate to buy the R-Spec last year. Problem for me was leasing - leasing is terrible on this car (because of the dealer assessed depreciation)...so I thought, great - I'll wait until my lease is up on my car that I definitely can't afford...this is back in the que. Problem is, used prices haven't really dropped much - so turns out I should have just bought one!

It was a great car when I drove it, but for a lease I could settle in with a well equipped E Class or my M37...both a much better deal in the end....and still less then the R-Spec. I know the dealer pretty well, and they swear the new redesign is going to turn heads...not as "generic" as some think the last body style was.

Satish Kondapavulur > 1skinnydave
10/18/2013 at 22:09

Well, if you really know the dealer, they'll give at least $3-5K off MSRP for a new one (at least in California), or a used one comes in between $30-35K. Those are excellent deals, especially with the really good interest rates.

BJ > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 22:58

I just fired up the configurator on Hyundai's website and it was remarkably barebones. You pick a trim level (R-spec 5.0) and an exterior colour. No choice of interior colour. No choice of wheels, chromey bits, wood trim, carbon fiber doodads, stereo, comfort, navigation, safety, etc etc etc. Nothing at all, except floor mats and a trunk lip protector.

I guess that's part of how they keep the price down. Too bad the colour choices are limited to black, blue (I'll admit it's a handesome shade), white, gray, grey, and gray. Would it have killed them to find a nice red as well?

BJ > Satish Kondapavulur
10/18/2013 at 23:00

Assuming that the rear-seat legroom is sufficient, this car would make an excellent taxi. No need to buy the 5.0 for taxi service, but then again, why not?

Satish Kondapavulur > BJ
10/18/2013 at 23:41

Believe it or not, red isn't offered on many cars these days (for instance, the new S-Class). In fact, I'm planning on writing an article about that.

GhostZ > EL_ULY
10/19/2013 at 07:10

V12 performance is 500-600HP. V8 Performance is 350-450HP.

Guess which category the Lexus falls under?

I'd also like to mention that the number of cylinders has very little impact on the actual output of the engine.

Every other 5-liter V8 on the market, whether it's from Jaguar (AJ133), Ford (Coyote 5.0), or Hyundai (Tau 5.0) gets at least 400HP, maybe more, without a hybrid system. The LS600hL's engine is about as far from a KERS system as you can get. The "performance of a V12" stuff is just marketing bullshit. One could argue that it's the "performance of a V12" if Toyota built a crappy 5-liter V12. Whic his hilarious, because their 5.0l V12 in the Century is significantly less powerful because it was designed in 1997 .

So no, there is almost no legitimacy to the claim that the LS600hL is anything other than a decent engine with a tax-evading hybrid system to come in under emissions requirement. Between the CVT and power-generating feature, it is the exact opposite of a KERS system that runs on Gas, and then boosts with electricity on-demand.

I'd also like to mention that it's also probably one of the most environmentally damaging vehicles on the market, Nickel-Hydride batteries and all.

GhostZ > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura
10/19/2013 at 07:14

In that case, you should like the Hyundai. Less weight (by 400lbs), no CVT, just as much power, and no compulsory AWD.

GhostZ > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 07:16

I think the LS600hL was priced due to cover R/D (they probably still make a loss on it...) and to claim ridiculous marketing praise for being the most expensive Japanese Sedan.

GhostZ > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 07:27

Truth be told, if you want a RWD Luxury V8 Sedan, I'd buy this:

Kinja'd!!!

People seem to forget that this comes with a 5.6l 420HP (and with more torque than the Hyundai Tau 5.0) with direct injection and some clever variable valve timing. I'd go ahead and bring it up to 500HP race-spec version though. Most people just think "50K for a N/A V6 sedan? Nope!" and completely ignore the V8 version.

If it wasn't so goddamn pretentious, I would put it a more underrated. But Nissan made a few mistakes, namely, not upping the power from the previous-generations, adding weight, and making it look too much like the Maxima and G37. Don't get me wrong, I think they're both beautiful, but they're so similar that few people can tell the difference.

Although, if I really was buying it, I'd just get a Crown Victoria and swap in a 700HP supercharged 32v Modular crate engine and spend the leftovers on a few 240Zs. Fuck luxury.

BJ > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 07:59

Looking forward to it!

Computerbudda > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 09:15

You are exactly right. I just got my 2010 Genesis 4.6 (pre Rspec) for 22K because it was the best car for the money. Let the depreciation for for me for a change. Unbelievable power, doesn't handle as well as my Mustang (or I like) but very smooth, comfortable and quiet. Lot's of electronic ho-ha's or is that do-dads but my favorite is lighted Genesis name on the door stills.

BrianRad > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 09:28

I still remember the 2 for 1 sales pitch Hyundai did in the 80's. My sister and her husband bought two '86 Hyundai Excels for under $10k. They were truly disposable cars. They drove them until the early '90s and junked them when the repairs were more than the cars were worth.

designlife > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 10:08

who is cross shopping this with a miata?

sorry i dont like the idea of spending so much money on a hyandai, when for the same money i can get a 300c srt8. this car might be cheap now but it will be way cheaper in 4 years when i go for something new. hyandai hasn't understood the luxury market outside of Korea, people who pay more for there cars want something well made like a lexus or fast like bmw this car is none. then add the branding you sell a 11k car and then a 50k car its too much. I think Hyundai should think strongly about starting a new luxury brand.

EL_ULY > GhostZ
10/19/2013 at 11:24

The way I was taught about its drive train and what I could physically feel from that beast I have to disagree. Working at high dealers for so long, I've had the opportunity drive many a 760li, A8, and S600 V12. I can promise you that during my time at Lexus (2007-2010), as far as acceleration is concerned, the LS600hL would have no problem with its German V12 counterparts. After Lexus, I continued as a tech working for a dealer with a combined service department of Volvo, Lotus, Mercedes, and Aston Martin. I became Volvo tech but also a front end specialist throughout the shop (fancy word for the alignment monkey) You'd be surprised for as much as those Aston's cost and the V12 under the hood how their performance stacks up. I'd bet anything a stock Z06 can smoke a DB9 (470 HP V12) all day. Shit, I remember getting my ass handed to me on a test drive in a V12 Vantage to some old guy in a CTS-V coupe. But, they are completely different class of vehicle of course. So the term V12 performance to me as i've personally felt it can vary from the big executive cars AND the LS600hL, to quick but non competitive Aston's, to actual V12 beasts like a 599 or Diablo. Lexus just found a way with AWD, good chassis, hybrid boost, and a Yamaha V8 to perform in its V12 class. All this was back in 2007 - 2008 ish when it was introduced. This post was for underrated vehicles. We hear about the 918, P1, and LaFerrari but not a whole lot of people know about Lexus Hybrid drive past and present. There is a difference between and eco Toyota including CT200h and a Lexus Hybrid Drive vehicle. Toyotas being beige and Lexus looking at The Predator are stigmas blocking the need to learn among enthusiast. To me personally, all cars are just bolts, nuts, parts, and fluids. I do not believe they have a soul or have passion, any of those dumb enthusiast buzz words that are used here. They all break down and all are just items. Im was just stating as far as the technology and performance of the LS600hL compared to is own V12 competitors was in my mind and how I have personally felt driving them seem to be an underrated vehicle in the world of car enthusiast. I just wish i could have an LS600hL with all the panels off the engine bay and under body while on a lift and let enthusiasts look around. The main reason being because these kids throw the word engineering around like its going out of style while simply just looking at numbers or believing what Top Gear says. The chassis, suspension, hand wet sanding paint process, and that state of the art interior waaay back in 2008 (and today ) is still another story as well.

Satish Kondapavulur > designlife
10/19/2013 at 12:01

I was focusing on the most underrated car title. And the Genesis is more refined than you'd think.

GhostZ > EL_ULY
10/19/2013 at 12:01

Regardless of underrated/overrated, I'm more concerned with the way you explained the Hybrid Synergy Drive. I'm speaking that, on principle, the hybrid synergy drive is extremely different from KERS and that comparison is both misleading and wrong, regardless of what Lexus's advertising and PR says.

A KERS system had a supplementary electric motor that provides full torque to a wheel (or to an axle) while draining a secondary battery source that is recharged either in part by the brakes (regenerative braking) or (in F1) by the engine's flywheel. It is then stored in a battery or some mechanical energy storage. All modern F1 cars, The P1, LaFerrari, and 918 Spyder all use this type of system. This means that the engines full power can be supplemented with the full output of the electric motor, since they can both independently act on the wheels.

The Hybrid Synergy Drive uses an electric motor to act in place of a CVT, allowing the wheels to rotate faster and providing additional torque without adding to the engine load until the engine needs to take over when the electric output is too low. That means you do not, at any point, get the full electric or the full gasoline design. This is why you cannot pair it with a conventional transmission. It is the same system the Prius uses, and while you can say it was "Designed" for performance, it is not the most optimal design for performance available (which would be a KERS hybrid).

In other words, unlike a KERS system, all it does is provide better power from electric mode when the engine is out of its efficient range (aka, low RPM) but does not provide a "full boost" under high-performance acceleration (high RPM, when the engine is working in its expected range)

So there is no 'hybrid boost', per say. All it does is allow the normal engine (which is, as I said, not a terribly impressive engine by any means) to run in a more gas-efficient band without sacrificing acceleration, or allow it to run at normal acceleration without affecting the fuel economy. It trades the two engine's benefits against each other to reduce emissions, but does not give full performance of either.

In a KERS system, fuel economy suffers (due to added weight on the flywheel usually) but full gasoline performance is always available, and the electric mode comes in, independently, on top of it.

Point is, Lexus's description and advertising of the Hybrid Synergy Drive, and their comparisons (that youtube video you linked is downright disgusting) is deceptive in their marketing.

EDIT: One more thing about V12s, the only reason adding more cylinders is necessary is that it allows you to have higher RPMs with the same displacement (shorter stroke per cylinder, lighter valves) or improve volumetric efficiency (better flow and distribution of air, like individual carb barrels) but variable valve timing has basically eliminated the volumetric advantages, so the higher-RPM capabilities are the main advantage still. There's also some balance benefits that V8s do not have. Since the Lexus LS400hL doesn't run to high-RPMs anyway (that's the entire point of the hybrid synergy drive) it is, from a mechanical standpoint, generally a compromised design compared to what it could be in a similar-displacement V12 without the hybrid system. Also, a V12 can have a more variable intake and exhaust runner setup, allowing for a wider torque range, which minimizes the losses by using a geared transmission instead of the CVT that the hybrid synergy drive has. This means that their V8's advantages over a "v12" in their class is largely a matter of the application (HSD luxury car) and not because of some mechanical advantage.

Satish Kondapavulur > BrianRad
10/19/2013 at 12:04

It's come a long way since then...

Satish Kondapavulur > Computerbudda
10/19/2013 at 12:05

Wow. For 22K, that's an excellent deal on a 4.6.

Satish Kondapavulur > GhostZ
10/19/2013 at 12:10

You know, I've never driven this. Since you recommended it, I just might have to. I'm sure the M56 is a good deal after a bit of depreciation, but if buying brand-new, $60K isn't worth it. The other thing I've read about it is that the handling isn't that good, but I have to try that for myself.

Computerbudda > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 12:16

22-25K for V8 or V6 seems to be a typical price in the DFW area for a fully loaded Sedan. You get more power in the V8 but better mileage in the V6.

GhostZ > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 12:19

It's a good car, but I've heard some serious criticisms about the suspension and general handling.

If you want the right car to try, get one of these:

Kinja'd!!!

The engine is actually nearly identical as it was 2 generations ago, because Nissan over-engineers an engine and keeps using it for 20 years (L, RB, SR, VK, VH, VG, VQ, etc.) but it has less weight and supposedly far improved handling. I'd drive one of these M45s (Yakuza style) before a brand-new M56. The only difference in the engine is the longer stroke and reduced redline, since it's not a Homologation engine anymore like it was back when it was first put into production.

Satish Kondapavulur > GhostZ
10/19/2013 at 12:27

I just checked CL for this, and I can find only 2 in the entire SF Bay Area. These are going to be very hard to find.

BrianRad > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 12:29

Not bashing them, but they were thin in the '80s

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > GhostZ
10/19/2013 at 13:04

But I don't. I don't know why, but I favor the AWD LS.

Pif > BrianRad
10/19/2013 at 17:52

Some models maybe. A friend had a 83 pony. 1.3L of carbed rwd fury. Well. More like passive aggressiveness. Still, body panels were THICK. Very strong car. Didn't like rust though...

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 19:21

"The guy in the E36 3-Series won't know what hit him when you merge into the left lane before he does." Dafuq you saying here?

designlife > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 19:56

ive seen these cars interiors after 3 years there wear and tear is alot higher, i think its the cheap leather or mechanisms but my little brothers matrix is holding up 10 times better.

Satish Kondapavulur > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/19/2013 at 20:27

Basically in the Genesis you'll manage to merge four lanes to get into the left lane before the E36 can summon the torque to do the same.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Satish Kondapavulur
10/19/2013 at 20:29

Which E36 you talking about, and why are you merging across 4 lanes?

EL_ULY > GhostZ
10/20/2013 at 19:21

lol duh dude. All i said was that its kinda like KERS in a simple description of Lexus Hybrid Drive (which is different than Hybrid Synergy Drive). Didn't state it was exactly like KERS and neither does Lexus ever. Even the phrase "kinda like KERS" is pushing it. 2 completly different technologies i know and is not what their PR is trying to say ever. As far as i have driven these vehicles, the LS600hL can compete with its V12 counterparts at the time giving the credit to its hybrid technology that i feel is underrated as this thread was for.

quarterlifecrisis > Satish Kondapavulur
10/21/2013 at 11:37

So...I read this the other day, didn't think much of it. Then in the perpetual quest for always wanting something different, starting looking at them on the CarMax website this morning...hmmm.

Satish Kondapavulur > quarterlifecrisis
10/21/2013 at 12:14

How much are they at Carmax?

quarterlifecrisis > Satish Kondapavulur
10/21/2013 at 12:28

$32k ish with 10-20k miles

Satish Kondapavulur > quarterlifecrisis
10/21/2013 at 12:35

That's pretty good. I think the one I drove was around $35K with around 7K miles.

Spaldino > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/02/2013 at 12:52

Well you always switch 4 lanes when driving a Ferrari and Jaguar...

... why not with a Genesis? ;)

Iamopenlyjudgingyou > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs
11/02/2013 at 12:57

Benefit of SHO (in white with tinted windows)

Automatic Unmarked Cop car syndrome.

juggaho > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/02/2013 at 13:15

Kinja'd!!!

kavexkdog > Satish Kondapavulur
11/02/2013 at 14:35

Haters gona hate. No biggie. Open up the exhaust note with an electric valve and the 5.0 beast will sing this heavenly song: 2012 Genesis R-Spec - Exhaust Cutout Open/Closed/Partial

You're welcome!

-5.0 2012 proud owner. (Y'all keep it underrated, ya hear? Owners like it that way. ;) )

Rein44 > Satish Kondapavulur
11/02/2013 at 14:56

"can summon up the torque to pass those numerous BMW 3-Series/Audi A4s/Mercedes C-Classes that clog the left lane in the Bay Area,"

Unless it can levitate above other cars, I don't see how it can pass anyone in a clogged left lane.

Rein44 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/02/2013 at 14:58

Merging across 4 lanes. Back in Chicago we called that 'The Dan Ryan Slide".

Satish Kondapavulur > kavexkdog
11/02/2013 at 15:26

Now this car is on my "want to have at one point in my life" list.

Satish Kondapavulur > Rein44
11/02/2013 at 15:29

Well, there is a right lane...

BlackLab > Satish Kondapavulur
11/02/2013 at 16:23

Might be underrated - but I'd still spend my money on something that looks nice and drives nice. I don't think the Hyundai does either that well. Its not great looking compared to the 300c or Audis and traditionally the suspension tuning sucks on Hyundai's I have not heard anything different about this one.

Free Market Party Company > Satish Kondapavulur
11/02/2013 at 22:27

I dig what you're getting at; great, but not well-known by a longshot. And about to be updated to a dramatically better-looking model.

highmodulus > Satish Kondapavulur
11/03/2013 at 17:05

Wait, its an unattractive, poor handling sedan, probably going to get murdered on resale and costs $45k+.

Kinja'd!!!

Satish Kondapavulur > highmodulus
11/03/2013 at 17:20

But underrated!

highmodulus > Satish Kondapavulur
11/04/2013 at 10:19

I would say "probably rated" but can understand your position. For underrated 4 door sedans, I would think the BMW 320i Jalopnik special is properly underrated but that's probably just down to simple opinion.

Tim Allardyce > kavexkdog
11/04/2013 at 10:23

One big WTF!! That sounds awesome...

aznlawyer > Satish Kondapavulur
11/07/2013 at 05:32

So after reading your article, I decided to test drive one before deciding on whether to get a BMW 5 Series or a Benz E-class. After the test drive though, I'm at a lost for words. I can't believe this car was built by Hyundai. HYUNDAI??? WOW. I am SHOCKED at how well this car drives and for under 48k, it's a steal. My only reservation was that it was a HYUNDAI. haha. I'm still trying to get over that. Granted, the center console could be a little busier in my opinion but there wasn't ANYTHING else I would change in this car. I want one. I want one bad.

aznlawyer > GhostZ
11/07/2013 at 05:45

I test drove this car last month and it wasn't even in my radar after I did the math. I'm not personally a fan of the exterior on this car but the M56 center console (interior in general actually) is definitely a step up from the Genesis 5.0 Rspec. No doubt about it. Now, I'm sure someone out there is willing to pay 70k for this car (after adding all the upgrades that already comes standard in the Genesis Rspec). I myself wouldn't even consider it at that price. It's DEFINITELY not worth the sticker price in my book and even if you knocked off another 5k, NO way. There ar too many other cars in that price range I'd rather get.

aznlawyer > Team6.1
11/07/2013 at 05:47

I remember when a lot of people use to say the exact same thing about the Lexus 15-20 years ago.